Tyler
Durden wrote:Which film is that, Tyler?Mags
J. wrote:Arminius wrote:»A
brainteaser: Who knows these nice guys?« **
**
Ah
cum-on... that's far too easy - am I giving away how long I've been here? Oops!
**
Okay, then please tell me the names, but please from memory,
and please don't cheat!Well
done!So Fuse gets the first award because he has answered
the fastest.He is young, and so he is very responsive, Mags! Sorry, but
you get the second award.Congratulations and thank you.The
first award: Congratulations, Fuse.Obe
wrote:Tyler, moral relativity is deadly. Living on the edge
in Germany may not mean the same in the US of A. I have lived in Germany in the
sixties, and was on the high of bicycling through the Black Forest, and meeting
my friends in the bar in the evening, with a terrible case of weltschmertz, which
i retained to the present day. A draft was 25 pfenning, i lived in Lintz, in a
slager, and my best friend was a guy from rome, and another guy from Australia.
In the morning i went to my job in a fabrique, where all i did was taking a mallet
and trying to dislodge it from pipes, where the pipes leaked out liqiuid glue?
I did not know what i was doing , but my German friends had a car and drove into
Dusseldorf on weekends. But had to take the train back on Sunday night.Since
i am one half Swabian, i figured i'd fit in, but my friend kept referring to mutti,
amd i felt kind of out of it. There is no economic collapse, there is
only the collapse of myself, gtrying to project a state, where i will find brothers
as bad off as i am, and for that here i am , when i told You, i want to relate
to You i didn't do it entirely from an altruistic point of view, i see myself
as You, say thirty years ago. Total angst, total playacting. That i have developed
alternate personalities to deal with it, mo one can blame me for, but by and by,
my authenticity gleams through, and i a comfortable with playing wittgenstein
like games. It is dreadful here, granted, but i knew FRIEND IN GERMANY, WHO FLIPPED
, and had to be re-patriated. I think, Snowden may not be at all comfortable in
his new surroundings, i suspect. Plese take care of Your self, and adhere to Your
most basic instincts of survival. as always, obe. **
Obe,
what - exactly - is so dreadful in the US? We are told nothing new about
the U.S. except Friede, Freude, Eierkuchen which means alles
klar, alles recht (all right), nothing has
changed, as if there were still the 1960s.Please tell us
more about the real situation in the US!Obe
wrote:Well, i will try. **
Thank
you, Obe.Obe wrote:Well, i will try.
However, i have an inkling, that You guys have a pretty good idea of the U.S.
Situation .... **
Not
all, some (including me) know quite enough about the U.S. situation. But the rulers
in Europe don't inform their people, and most of the Europeans are
not interested, because and although they are not informed by their
governments. Obe wrote:..., as it's
fairly obvious from world reporting on the late great recession, the plight of
returning veterans who find themselves having to wait inordinately for referrals
to specialists to treat their maladies, of gi's living on the streets near VA
hospitals, strung out on dope, not able to return to civilian life. Other things:
the air here is not at all like the sixties, to give You an example, when i came
to live here, gasoline cost per gallon was 15 cents, now it's almost $5. A pack
of cigs was 25c, now it's $5. First class stamps were 4c now they are 50c. The
same with rents and food.The suicide rate in the military is very much
larger then before, and there is a foreboding of valuelessness as purchase price
of products rise, along with the cost of living. Don't get me wrong,
only segments of the populations feel this downward trend, while the upper middle
class has no apparent problems with any of it. **
These
segments of the population are not a few, because, depending on the
respectively definition of the word classes, the percentage of the
population of both the middle and the lower class is generally more
than 99%, and the percentage of the population of the middle class is generally
about 50%, that of the upper middle class generally about 5%, so that generally
about 94-99% of the U.S. population may be affected. Because of the fact that
some people are more contended than other people, the percentage of discontended
people is - for eaxmple - about 47-50%.Obe wrote:As
far as my take on living in the USA, it is anchored in a sense of high resiliency
of the population, much like Henry Miller describes it in his novel "air
conditioned nightmare. Still, people are able to live the mix,of ghettos and areas
of great wealth coexisting in a geographical no man's land, and everybody tries
to live under the idea of a 'classless' society. In a sense it is classless, and
that too, is a catch 22, where that idea, also suffers when economic markers lower
the bar, where social interactions at times painfully drag on the cheering thoughts
of personal freedoms. The collapse is nought, i don't quite see that,
but what i see, is more of the same, the hidden downtrodden, the homeless ghettos,
the high rate of crime, etc., it implies a societal chaos, that the US population
can absorb.Recently, there has been a sharp upsurge of child molestation
among educators, and this is a veery sign of moral decay.The way i see
it, if it wasn't for the laxity of morality, (after all isn't Sweden a good model
for it?), dissent and societal unhappiness would not have the safety valve of
releasing at least on Freudian truth, of civilization's discontents. **
That's
not only a Freudian truth.And Sweden a good model? Well,
I doubt that.Obe wrote:Perhaps absolute, new
world order Capitalism will solve all the insidiousness, and the word is out on
that. **
If
so, then - according to Hegel's Dialektik - it will have to be a Synthesis of
the Thesis capitalism (especially successful in the 19th century)
and the Antithesis communism (especially successful in the 20th century).
What can that kind of Synthesis be? Merely something like globalism or its contrary:
localism / regionalism which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY
[**|**]).Obe
wrote:I feel my answer to Your query may be sort of
disjointed, in fact i know it is, but the reason for it is, that the issues and
problems parleyed are not reducible to formulas of only a few variables. This
country, is, now, i feel, one of the least understood social systems on earth,
minus Great Britain, with which it has a historically close relationship.
**
And
before U.K. and U.S. came together (during the First World War), there was a deeply
realtionship between Germany and U.S. Obe wrote:The
EU, adopting many of the same platforms, is far more sensitive to the inherent
changes of cultural and ethnographic effects, but cross cultural dynamics, related
to the flow of peoples and capital, make it not only a US situation.It
will turn out well in the end, but there will be cataclysms of major proportions,
as the changes create ripple effects, cumulatively effecting the world over.
**
Maybe
it will turn out well in the end, but can we be sure? Obe wrote:
The US has enjoyed 50+ yeas of unparalleled post world war economic superiority,
and the sad fact is, a well fed middle class, taking such prosperity pretty much
for granted, would not stand a chance of survival, was it not for the international
corporations sustaining, as of yet a positive cash flow toward the United States,
and Great Britain and the EU.The new world order is as ideologically
necessary in today's world, as Marxism seemed to fit the bill, prior to the great
ideological showdown, which brought in the World War. In that time, it appeared,
as if Capitalism was a dying institution. History proved itself otherwise, and
it is to Communism that distinction went to. It was a Hundred Years' War, of ideological
conflict, and what we are seeing and feeling in the world today, are the sparks
shooting out of the dying embers of ideology. This is what the end of history
signifies, there are no credible cognitive markers, which can be used, as tools,
to unearth, 'The Truth' of what the basic formula requires. Pragmatism has definitely
won out worldwide over all forms of idealism, excepting art. **
Idealism,
right. And idealism is mostly German idealism. If the new world order
is really as ideologically necessary in today's world, then this new
world order can merely be - llike I said - something like globalism or its contrary:
localism / regionalism, which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY
[**|**]).What
you are calling the Hundred Years War, of ideological
conflict, is the epoch where egalitarianism (socialism, communism etc.)
were stronger that liberalism (capitalism etc.) bcause it had undercut and threatened
all liberalistic (capitalistic) systems. But now we are living in a different
epoch: capitalism is weak, communism is not as strong as in the last epoch, and
globalism - as the Synthesis of capitalism and communism (cp. Hegel's Dialektik)
- is the strongest. That means that both capitalism and communism still exist,
but as a mix in which capitalism dominates as a communism. Referring
to the fact that globalism is a Synthesis of capitalism (Thesis) and communism
(Antithesis) the end of history will be reached when this Synthesis has
changed to such a New Thesis whithout any historical existence. Merely
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism, which will lead
to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical times (cp.
my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).Obe
wrote: So as bad as things are in the Western World,
it is more stable then at anytime in the history of the world, and as new emerging
markets get progressively involved in a new world trade, we, who appear in a decline,
have to grin and bear it, hoping for a turn for the better.That much
for the social/economic markers. It would be preposterous, and naive of me
to not notice the psychosocial objects left hanging, as the genius of utilitarianism
is always to point to the futility of such an abstract yet naive way to describe
a situation, where it can just as equally be pointed out, that it is not the 'system's
fault but those singular individuals' who decide to construe a point of view,
predicated on the simple notion of directing fault outside their orbit of reference.
Art has retained this freedom of expression, an absolute reminder that
the 2nd amendment is alive and well, but there are a lot of starving , disheartened
artists out there, with or without a portfolio, to whom life as art, best describes
their being, and soul. **
The
current art shows also what globalism means (see above), so the current art is
also enbedded in both capitalisms and communism, in Thesis and Antithesis of the
Synthesis globalism. Nobody else than Oswald A. G. Spengler has so consequently
and arrestingly shown how art works as a semiotic and/or linguistic indicator
for historical phases of a culture / civilisation.According to Schopenhauer
in the face of the will as Kants Ding an sich (thing
in itself) human beings are almost powerless, but amongst them the genies
of the art, especially of the music, are able to conceive and represent the eternal
ideas.Obe wrote:Well,
i will try. **
Thank
you, Obe.Obe wrote:Well, i will try.
However, i have an inkling, that You guys have a pretty good idea of the U.S.
Situation .... **
Not
all, some (including me) know quite enough about the U.S. situation. But the rulers
in Europe don't inform their people, and most of the Europeans are
not interested, because and although they are not informed by their
governments. Obe wrote:..., as it's
fairly obvious from world reporting on the late great recession, the plight of
returning veterans who find themselves having to wait inordinately for referrals
to specialists to treat their maladies, of gi's living on the streets near VA
hospitals, strung out on dope, not able to return to civilian life. Other things:
the air here is not at all like the sixties, to give You an example, when i came
to live here, gasoline cost per gallon was 15 cents, now it's almost $5. A pack
of cigs was 25c, now it's $5. First class stamps were 4c now they are 50c. The
same with rents and food.The suicide rate in the military is very much
larger then before, and there is a foreboding of valuelessness as purchase price
of products rise, along with the cost of living. Don't get me wrong,
only segments of the populations feel this downward trend, while the upper middle
class has no apparent problems with any of it. **
These
segments of the population are not a few, because, depending on the
respectively definition of the word classes, the percentage of the
population of both the middle and the lower class is generally more
than 99%, and the percentage of the population of the middle class is generally
about 50%, that of the upper middle class generally about 5%, so that generally
about 94-99% of the U.S. population may be affected. Because of the fact that
some people are more contended than other people, the percentage of discontended
people is - for eaxmple - about 47-50%.Obe wrote:As
far as my take on living in the USA, it is anchored in a sense of high resiliency
of the population, much like Henry Miller describes it in his novel "air
conditioned nightmare. Still, people are able to live the mix,of ghettos and areas
of great wealth coexisting in a geographical no man's land, and everybody tries
to live under the idea of a 'classless' society. In a sense it is classless, and
that too, is a catch 22, where that idea, also suffers when economic markers lower
the bar, where social interactions at times painfully drag on the cheering thoughts
of personal freedoms. The collapse is nought, i don't quite see that,
but what i see, is more of the same, the hidden downtrodden, the homeless ghettos,
the high rate of crime, etc., it implies a societal chaos, that the US population
can absorb.Recently, there has been a sharp upsurge of child molestation
among educators, and this is a veery sign of moral decay.The way i see
it, if it wasn't for the laxity of morality, (after all isn't Sweden a good model
for it?), dissent and societal unhappiness would not have the safety valve of
releasing at least on Freudian truth, of civilization's discontents. **
That's
not only a Freudian truth.And Sweden a good model? Well,
I doubt that.Obe wrote:Perhaps absolute, new
world order Capitalism will solve all the insidiousness, and the word is out on
that. **
If
so, then - according to Hegel's Dialektik - it will have to be a Synthesis of
the Thesis capitalism (especially successful in the 19th century)
and the Antithesis communism (especially successful in the 20th century).
What can that kind of Synthesis be? Merely something like globalism or its contrary:
localism / regionalism which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY
[**|**]).Obe
wrote:I feel my answer to Your query may be sort of
disjointed, in fact i know it is, but the reason for it is, that the issues and
problems parleyed are not reducible to formulas of only a few variables. This
country, is, now, i feel, one of the least understood social systems on earth,
minus Great Britain, with which it has a historically close relationship.
**
And
before U.K. and U.S. came together (during the First World War), there was a deeply
realtionship between Germany and U.S.Obe wrote:The
EU, adopting many of the same platforms, is far more sensitive to the inherent
changes of cultural and ethnographic effects, but cross cultural dynamics, related
to the flow of peoples and capital, make it not only a US situation.It
will turn out well in the end, but there will be cataclysms of major proportions,
as the changes create ripple effects, cumulatively effecting the world over.
**
Maybe
it will turn out well in the end, but can we be sure? Obe wrote:
The US has enjoyed 50+ yeas of unparalleled post world war economic superiority,
and the sad fact is, a well fed middle class, taking such prosperity pretty much
for granted, would not stand a chance of survival, was it not for the international
corporations sustaining, as of yet a positive cash flow toward the United States,
and Great Britain and the EU.The new world order is as ideologically
necessary in today's world, as Marxism seemed to fit the bill, prior to the great
ideological showdown, which brought in the World War. In that time, it appeared,
as if Capitalism was a dying institution. History proved itself otherwise, and
it is to Communism that distinction went to. It was a Hundred Years' War, of ideological
conflict, and what we are seeing and feeling in the world today, are the sparks
shooting out of the dying embers of ideology. This is what the end of history
signifies, there are no credible cognitive markers, which can be used, as tools,
to unearth, 'The Truth' of what the basic formula requires. Pragmatism has definitely
won out worldwide over all forms of idealism, excepting art. **
Idealism,
right. And idealism is mostly German idealism. If the new world order
is really as ideologically necessary in today's world, then this new
world order can merely be - llike I said - something like globalism or its contrary:
localism / regionalism, which will lead to the pre-historical times resembling
post-historical times (cp. my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY
[**|**]).What
you are calling the Hundred Years War, of ideological
conflict, is the epoch where egalitarianism (socialism, communism etc.)
were stronger that liberalism (capitalism etc.) bcause it had undercut and threatened
all liberalistic (capitalistic) systems. But now we are living in a different
epoch: capitalism is weak, communism is not as strong as in the last epoch, and
globalism - as the Synthesis of capitalism and communism (cp. Hegel's Dialektik)
- is the strongest. That means that both capitalism and communism still exist,
but as a mix in which capitalism dominates as a communism. Referring
to the fact that globalism is a Synthesis of capitalism (Thesis) and communism
(Antithesis) the end of history will be reached when this Synthesis has
changed to such a New Thesis whithout any historical existence. Merely
something like globalism or its contrary: localism / regionalism, which will lead
to the pre-historical times resembling post-historical times (cp.
my thread: Thinking about the END OF HISTORY [**|**]).Obe
wrote: So as bad as things are in the Western World,
it is more stable then at anytime in the history of the world, and as new emerging
markets get progressively involved in a new world trade, we, who appear in a decline,
have to grin and bear it, hoping for a turn for the better.That much
for the social/economic markers. It would be preposterous, and naive of me
to not notice the psychosocial objects left hanging, as the genius of utilitarianism
is always to point to the futility of such an abstract yet naive way to describe
a situation, where it can just as equally be pointed out, that it is not the 'system's
fault but those singular individuals' who decide to construe a point of view,
predicated on the simple notion of directing fault outside their orbit of reference.
Art has retained this freedom of expression, an absolute reminder that
the 2nd amendment is alive and well, but there are a lot of starving , disheartened
artists out there, with or without a portfolio, to whom life as art, best describes
their being, and soul. **
The
current art shows also what globalism means (see above), so the current art is
also enbedded in both capitalisms and communism, in Thesis and Antithesis of the
Synthesis globalism. Nobody else than Oswald A. G. Spengler has so consequently
and arrestingly shown how art works as a semiotic and/or linguistic indicator
for historical phases of a culture / civilisation.According to Schopenhauer
in the face of the will as Kants Ding an sich (thing
in itself) human beings are almost powerless, but amongst them the genies
of the art, especially of the music, are able to conceive and represent the eternal
ideas.Ierrellus
wrote:Arminius, Are there machines, then, who know
»relative« free will? **
That's
- of course - a good question, and I answer it with: in the future machines
will probably know »relative« free will.
The will, how Schopenhauer defiend it (as Kant's Ding an sich
- thing in itself), is a free will, but not the will of the
human beings because human beings depend on the will. Since God has been
murdered - at the end of the 18th century - his free will have also been
murdered. Since then human beings pride themselves to be like God, to
have a free will, but that is a false conclusion.
James
S. Saint wrote:Arminius wrote:What
would you do, if an android hires andriods but not you because you are a risk
and in the way?« **
**
I would build an android to replace that one.
**
Ah, and by whom or what exactly?Phoneutria
wrote:A »heathen« may draw his motivation
for a good conduct in honoring his ancestry .... To not engage in actions that
would shame his name. To love his parents and grandparents and those that came
before so that he wishes to make them proud. To have self pride and self love
from belonging to this lineage/culture, and to wish to preserve it.
That
is what a heathen should do, yes.Actually it is what all human beings
should do, but nihilistic human beings are not able to do.So the question
is not only heathendom versus monotheism, but also heathendom versus
nihilism. Interest
(=> will) is the most important thing (perhaps it is really Kant's Ding
an sich - thing in itself). A good example is the sexual
selection that I would prefer to call reproductive interests when
it comes to get ressources (including offspring / children), namely either by
(a) dominance or by (b)
will to appeal. If a female can't reproduce herself and doesn't want a
male or children, because she is kidded - for example - by feminism or other nihilisms,
then she is no longer part of the evolution. End.Who benefits from that?James
S. Saint wrote:Despite all of the books on the subject,
that actually translates as »Thing as such«. **
Thank you, James.Should
we say heathendom / monotheism / nihilism versus ... (put
in the right word) ...? |